Posts by The Searcher

70

Watchtower honors Jehovah's Witness Elders responsible for Candice Conti and Menlo Park Fiascos

by Balaamsass in

this weekend was the convention for the southern san francisco bay area.

it was held at the santa clara convention center in the silicon valley http://www.santaclara.org/conventioncenter/ which is an improvement over the old s.f.

cow palace which is still used..just not as much.

The Searcher

The "sighing and groaning over the detestable things being done" is getting louder and more widespread. (Ezekiel 9:4)

The 'Man of Lawlessness' (whoever he is!!) is rapidly approaching his'curtain ripping moment'!! (Luke 23:45)

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

The Searcher

Sad to say, I agree with ALLTIMEJEFF - RECOVERY has blown his cover by the language he used & its tone.

This individual is probably not a serving Witness, and is therefore just some lonely individual who seeks attention by being provocative to both sides of a debate.

On the other hand, he could very well be a little 'spanner in the works', deliberately trying to disrupt open discussions concerning Bible doctrines - something the G.B. has stated it does not condone! (KM Sept. 2007)

Whatever the case - goodbye RECOVERY, and keep taking the medication!

19

Revelation 19:1 omitted from NWT index?

by DATA-DOG in

i am just curious about something.

the term great crowd of other sheep does not exist in the scriptures.

while looking into the great crowd of revelation i noticed that revelation 19:1 is not included in the index under the term great crowd.

The Searcher

Sorry for the repetition - just wanted to tidy up the errors.

There are probably numerous examples in the Bible where the same word/s are used, but refer to different subjects. Simple one is 'Lord', as seen at Psalm 110:1 and elsewhere in the Scriptures. Or 'sea' & 'waters', where they can be literal or figurative - representing peoples.

The Bible truth is, the term 'other sheep' does not refer to those with an earthly hope, it refers to non-Jews, or Gentiles.

At John 10:16 Jesus said, "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."

How would these 'other sheep' be identified? To identify them, (beyond all reasonable doubt) we only have have to reason on the Scriptures.

Jesus had previously given his disciples the order, "Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter into a Sa·mar´i·tan city; but, instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt. 10:5,6)

"I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt. 15:24)

On both of these occasions, Jesus identifies the only group of people to whom he was to preach - the Jews!

This fulfilled Daniel's prophecy about the old covenant being kept operative for the Jews for 42 months after Jesus' death. Only after that time period had elapsed, would the the Gentiles be called in.

Paul confirmed this when he wrote, "For I am not ashamed of the good news; it is, in fact, God’s power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek", (Gentiles) (Rom. 1:16) as well as, "for the Jew first and also for the Greek". (Rom. 2:10)

The Insight Book very concisely summarises the identity of the 'other sheep': "Jesus’ sacrificial death on the torture stake also provided the basis for canceling the Mosaic Law, which divided the Jews from the non-Jews. Therefore, upon becoming Christians, both peoples could be at peace with God and with one another. The apostle Paul wrote: "[Jesus] is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace; and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake". (it-2 p. 592 Peace)

Therefore, Jesus' 'other sheep' (non-Jews) would unite with Jews as one flock, under one shepherd.

By stating that they would become "one flock, one shepherd", Jesus made it clear that there would be no distinctions or classes amongst his sheep. He said, "All you are brothers". (Matt. 23:8)

The true context of Jesus' words at John 10:16 becomes crystal clear by reading from John 9:40. Jesus was speaking with the Jews and Pharisees who were following him around. He was not having a personal chat with his "little flock".

From that verse onwards, Jesus is speaking of all those who would become his sheep, starting with 'this fold', (the Jews) the people to whom he was addressing.

19

Revelation 19:1 omitted from NWT index?

by DATA-DOG in

i am just curious about something.

the term great crowd of other sheep does not exist in the scriptures.

while looking into the great crowd of revelation i noticed that revelation 19:1 is not included in the index under the term great crowd.

The Searcher

There are probably numerous examples in the Bible where the same word/s are used, but refer to different subjects. Simple one is 'Lord', as seen at Psalm 110:1 and elsewhere in the Scriptures. Or 'sea' & 'waters', where they can be literal or figurative - representing peoples.

The Bible truth is, the term 'other sheep' does not refer to those with an earthly hope, it refers to non-Jews, or Gentiles.

At John 10:16 Jesus said, "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."

How would these 'other sheep' be identified? To identify them, (beyond all reasonable doubt) we only have have to reason on the Scriptures.

Jesus had previously given his disciples the order, "Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter into a Sa·mar´i·tan city; but, instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt. 10:5,6)

"I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(Matt. 15:24)
On both of these occasions, Jesus identifies the only group of people to whom he was to preach - the Jews!
This fulfilled Daniel's prophecy about the old covenant being kept operative for the Jews for 42 months after Jesus' death. Only after that time period had elapsed, would the the Gentiles be called in.
Paul confirmed this when he wrote, "For I am not ashamed of the good news; it is, in fact, God’s power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek", (Gentiles) (Rom. 1:16) as well as, "for the Jew first and also for the Greek". (Rom. 2:10)
The Insight Book very concisely summarises the identity of the 'other sheep':"Jesus’ sacrificial death on the torture stake also provided the basis for canceling the Mosaic Law, which divided the Jews from the non-Jews. Therefore, upon becoming Christians, both peoples could be at peace with God and with one another. The apostle Paul wrote: "[Jesus] is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace; and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake". (it-2 p. 592 Peace)
Therefore, Jesus' 'other sheep' (non-Jews) would unite with Jews as one flock, under one shepherd.
By stating that they would become "one flock, one shepherd", Jesus made it clear that there would be no distinctions or classes amongst his sheep. He said, "All you are brothers". (Matt. 23:8)
The true context of Jesus' words at John 10:16 becomes crystal clear by reading from John 9:40. Jesus was speaking with the Jews and Pharisees who were following him around. He was not having a personal chat with his "little flock".
From that verse onwards, Jesus is speaking of all those who would become his sheep, starting with 'this fold', (the Jews) the people to whom he was addressing.

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

The Searcher

@FERNANDO

Thanks for your comments.

I try to base my beliefs purely on the Bible, not what appears in literature.

The following Scriptures are unambiguous as to who God views as sons, as well as brothers of Christ!

(Matthew 12:50) whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

(Matthew 13:38)

The field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom;

(Matthew 25:40)

To the extent that YOU did it to one of the least of these my brothers, YOU did it to me.

(Mark 3:35)

Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother and sister and mother.”

(Luke 8:21)

In reply he said to them: “My mother and my brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”

(John 1:12,13)

However, as many as did receive him , to them he gave authority

to become God’s children.........

(John 15:14)

YOU are my friends if YOU do what I am commanding YOU .

(Rom. 8:14)

For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons.

(1 John 5:1)

Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God .......... (Revised Standard Version)

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

The Searcher

@ RECOVERY

As a brother, don't be afraid to discuss the Scriptures; but I do promise you, the truth does hurt at first - a lot!!

Once I'd researched the truth about the Romans 6:7 lie, one falsehood after another surfaced.

If you're happy in your own little 'spiritual paradise', (another myth) then I wish you well when the time comes. However, no one will be able to say they didn't know, or they were misled - we all have the Scriptures with the warnings recorded for our benefit.

When you allow others to interpret Scriptures for you, you are then relying on their interpretation!!

If you don't wish to discuss any teachings whatsoever, at least test one doctrine on your own; using the Watchtower CD ROM, type in 'sons' 'children' and 'brothers'. Then only use the Bible to see who are really God's sons & Christ's brothers.

I hope you do.

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

The Searcher

@leaving_quietly

Sadly, you are telling a 100% truth about doing Bible research. We are already warned in the September 2007 KM, not to do research in groups. (like the Beroeans) The truth is not afraid of scrutiny - it welcomes it!!

When I answer at the meeting, I try to plant 'seeds' which may grow in some minds. I stopped answering parrot-fashion according to the literature, a long time ago.

However, I also inject little Bible truths into private conversations with a select few whom I feel are receptive.

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

The Searcher

@RECOVERY

Hi, let me promise you right away that I am not D/Fd, nor "apostate" - I am a regular publisher who has discovered over the past 3 years or so, that there are things published in our literature which are definitely not in the Bible, and things in the Bible which our literature dare not reveal!

If you are willing to discuss these, I'll be more than happy to share the results of my Bible-based research with you.

A very simple, but clear example - "New Scrolls"; this term has embedded itself into most Witnesses psyche - mine included. This is despite the fact that this false teaching first raised its ugly head in 1985, and has only appeared 4 times since then!

Read Revelation 20:12 and then come back and prove that the 5 references are based on God's Word!!!

Am I thinking of leaving? No! Just as 1st century faithful Jews stuck with the Jewish system till Christ came, despite seeing the 'traditions which made God's word invalid', I will wait patiently and practice truth, not man-made myths.

Keep in mind Paul's words, " Well, then, have I become YOUR enemy because I tell YOU the truth?" (Gal. 4:16)

Not everyone is here looking for an argument - some are genuinely looking for truth.

Just a little p.s. I haven't read Bro. Franz's book - I don't need to - the Scriptures have opened my eyes already.

1

Great Tribulation "Old Light" Discovered

by The Searcher in

*** w55 10/15 p. 623 par.

*** w56 12/15 p. 755 par.

*** w56 2/15 p. 119 par.

The Searcher

*** w51 3/15 p. 164 Time Better than Money ***

When Christ was enthroned, in 1914, great tribulation was started against Satan and his wicked world organization. If it had then proceeded to completion, no flesh would have been saved. But for the sake of human flesh that tribulation was shortened or cut short, to allow a period of time for men to take in and give out knowledge of the established heavenly kingdom, before that tribulation enters its climax of Armageddon.

*** w51 5/15 p. 306 par. 1 Leaves of Healing ***

In fact, for the sake of these elect or chosen ones Jehovah cut short the days of the great tribulation upon Satan’s world, that the remnant might be relieved of what ailed them spiritually and might be saved to heavenly life in the new world.

*** w51 12/15 p. 752 par. 14 Release Under Way to the Ends of the Earth ***

one of the elderly persons identifies the crowd to John and says: "These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation [this locates their coming between 1919 and Armageddon],

*** w53 7/15 p. 447 Questions From Readers ***

The great tribulation of Armageddon.

*** w54 12/1 p. 712 The "Time of the End" ***

So "this generation" from 1914 shall not pass till the "time of the end" closes with the "great tribulation".

*** w54 10/15 p. 624 Why Prayers Go Unanswered ***

this present evil world must end in that "great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again," namely, the war of Armageddon.

*** w54 9/1 p. 523 Declared Righteous by Jehovah ***

the great tribulation of Armageddon

*** w55 10/15 p. 623 par. 9 The Triumphant Message of "The Kingdom" ***

the preaching must continue until the battle of Armageddon, the "great tribulation

*** w56 12/15 p. 755 par. 11 Telling the Good News from Day to Day ***

At the start of the great tribulation upon Satan’s organization in 1914 all such people felt merely the "beginning of pangs of distress,"

*** w56 2/15 p. 119 par. 38 Triumphing over Wicked Spirit Forces ***

Jehovah halted that "war in heaven" with the casting of them out of heaven and down to this earth in order that he might let Satan and his demons remain here in their debasement of defeat for a "short period of time" before Armageddon. Thus he cut short the "great tribulation" upon Satan’s world.

*** w57 10/1 p. 604 par. 40 Endurance like Job’s in the Time of the End ***

The days of that tribulation have been cut short by allowing Satan a "short period of time" to operate at the earth for the testing of the remnant,

*** w57 4/15 p. 240 par. 42 When All Men Again Worship One God ***

after the great tribulation now near at hand

*** w58 11/15 p. 691 par. 22 Signs and Wonders in the Time of the End ***

In 1918 he stopped the great tribulation that had begun upon the enemy organization of Satan the Devil.

*** w59 4/15 p. 242 par. 21 The Perfect Ruler for Man’s Government ***

during the great tribulation that is yet to come,

*** w61 4/15 p. 238 par. 8 Hope of Survival Faces the Problem ***

God will save flesh that is not of this world, by shortening the days of the great tribulation.

*** w61 10/15 p. 631 The Time for God’s Kingdom to Come ***

This tribulation on Satan’s organization began in 1914 when Christ warred with the Devil and his angels

*** w61 11/1 p. 671 Questions From Readers ***

By this war in heaven against the Devil’s invisible organization the "great tribulation" began.

*** w61 11/1 p. 671 Questions From Readers ***

Thus for the time being the great tribulation upon Satan’s organization was interrupted or discontinued. Evidently that occurred by A.D. 1918.

*** w67 10/15 p. 629 par. 21 To the Rescue! ***

The name "the great tribulation" well applies to this time of tribulation that has been upon mankind since the year of the outbreak of World War I, to wit, 1914, and that will mount up to its highest destructiveness in the war of Armageddon, completely exterminating this worldly system of things.

*** w70 5/1 p. 286 Do You Remember? ***

In its modern application, what is the "great tribulation" mentioned at Matthew 24:21, 22, and when is it to occur?

It is the destruction of the world empire of false religion (including Christendom) and the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" at Armageddon against the political allies of Babylonish religion. That "great tribulation" is yet ahead.

*** w80 10/15 p. 13 par. 5 Are We Nearing Armageddon? ***

God’s war of Armageddon will be the final part of a period of time called the "great tribulation."

*** w85 10/1 pp. 16-17 par. 15 Peace, Security, and the ‘Image of the Beast’ ***

Jesus said that the destruction of Christendom would be the start of a "great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again." (Matthew 24:15, 21) As the tribulation continues, God’s Kingdom will execute judgment on all the political and commercial parts of Satan’s organization.

*** wt chap. 13 p. 121 par. 4 A Great Crowd Before Jehovah’s Throne ***

Revelation 7:14 says of the great crowd: "These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation." They survive the worst trouble ever experienced in human history. 2012-09-01

207

Who Really is The Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Recovery in

let's assume, as most of you probably believe, that the anointed christians are not the fds.

if the anointed are not the fds, who are?.

The Searcher

Have you typed in 'slave' or 'slaves' into the Watchtower Library CD ROM, and examined the usage in the Greek Scriptures?

It becomes very clear that everyone who exercises faith in the ransom, becomes a 'slave' of God & Christ.

We are all accountable for what we do with the "talent".